Legislature(1995 - 1996)

02/06/1995 05:04 PM House FSH

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
              HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON FISHERIES                             
                        February 6, 1995                                       
                           5:04 p.m.                                           
                                                                               
                                                                               
 MEMBERS PRESENT                                                               
                                                                               
 Representative Alan Austerman, Chairman                                       
 Representative Carl Moses, Vice Chair                                         
 Representative Gary Davis                                                     
 Representative Scott Ogan                                                     
 Representative Kim Elton                                                      
                                                                               
 MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                
                                                                               
 None                                                                          
                                                                               
 COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                            
                                                                               
 National Marine Fisheries Service on Stellar Sea Lions                        
                                                                               
 North Pacific Fisheries Management Council presentation by                    
 Rick Lauber                                                                   
                                                                               
 WITNESS REGISTER                                                              
                                                                               
 SUE MELLO, ECOLOGIST                                                          
 Protected Resources Management Division                                       
 National Marine Fisheries Service                                             
 P.O. Box 21668                                                                
 Juneau, AK  99802                                                             
 Phone: 586-7235                                                               
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided presentation for National Marine                
      Fisheries Service                                                        
                                                                               
 RICK LAUBER, CHAIRMAN                                                         
 North Pacific Fisheries Management Council                                    
 321 Highland Drive                                                            
 Juneau, AK  99801                                                             
 Phone: 586-6366                                                               
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided presentation on North Pacific                   
      Fisheries Management Council                                             
                                                                               
 ACTION NARRATIVE                                                              
                                                                               
 TAPE 95-6, SIDE A                                                             
 Number 000                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ALAN AUSTERMAN called the meeting to order at 5:04 p.m.              
 Members present at the call to order were Representatives Davis,              
 Elton and Moses. Chairman Austerman noted that a quorum was                   
 present.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 020                                                                    
                                                                               
 SUE MELLO, Ecologist, Protected Resources Management Division,                
 National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS), began her testimony                 
 saying, "As you probably all know, Stellar sea lions are large                
 marine mammals that range from California through the Alaska North            
 Pacific Rim, into Russia.  In the early 60s their numbers were                
 estimated as something between 200 and 300,000 with the bulk of the           
 population occurring in the central Gulf of Alaska and the Aleutian           
 Islands.  At least 75 percent occurred there.  It has always been             
 the heart of their abundance.  In the early 80s, biologists started           
 to note a decline in the eastern Aleutians.  At that time, it was             
 thought that perhaps sea lions were just redistributing to other              
 areas.  Subsequent surveys in 1985 documented that the animals had            
 been reduced by about 50 percent, since the 60s.  Surveys in `89              
 showed another drastic decline of over 50 percent between `85 and             
 `89 in the Gulf and in the Aleutian Islands.  By 1990 the decline             
 had been documented in the western Aleutians, Russian and Prince              
 William Sound, as well.  The reasons for the decline in sea lions             
 are not really well known.  Scientists have hypothesized it could             
 be the synergistic effects of commercial fisheries, such as                   
 incidental takes, intentional takes and also prey depletion.  Other           
 factors such as disease and natural predation have been looked at             
 as well, but to this date no one really knows what exactly is                 
 driving this decline."                                                        
                                                                               
 MS. MELLO testified, "In 1990, NMFS listed the Stellar sea lions as           
 a threatened species under the Endangered Species Act (ESA) even              
 though the decline had only been west of Kenai, to that point, we             
 had no information to show there were separate populations so we              
 listed it range wide.  This is despite the fact that Southeast                
 Alaska, Oregon and California were stable populations.  At the time           
 of listing, we also instituted regulations to help the population             
 recover.  These consisted of a prohibition on shooting sea lions              
 which at the time was legal, in defense of catch.  We also created            
 three nautical mile no-entry zones around rookery zones west of               
 Kenai Peninsula, which are 37 sites.  And we also reduced the                 
 incidental take level that was allowable in commercial fisheries by           
 one half, although that level really was not significant at the               
 time.  Fisheries were taking about 30 animals per year (while) the            
 take level was 1350.  The agency also appointed a recovery team               
 which developed the recovery plan which is in front of you and is             
 basically the blueprint for trying to reverse the decline.  The               
 thing is:  No one knows what's causing the decline.  Most of what's           
 in that recovery plan is a research program and also basic                    
 management actions.  In 1991 and 1992, the NMFS passed regulations            
 under the Magnuson Act to prohibit trawling around rookeries west             
 of Kenai over broader areas than we had previously.  Those                    
 regulations were passed because the NMFS in reviewing the data on             
 the commercial groundfish fisheries and sea lions, noted that there           
 had been a coincident movement of the fishery from an offshore                
 fishery, in the days of the foreign fleets, to a more near shore              
 fishery."                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 112                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. MELLO proceeded, "Since that time, we've done no new                      
 regulations.  We did designate critical habitat which is a                    
 requirement under the ESA, but we did not prohibit any actions in             
 new critical habitat.  Alaska critical habitat are the rookeries,             
 major haul outs and also aquatic areas associated with them."                 
                                                                               
 Number 121                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. MELLO said, "Last year in November after continuing to see the            
 population decline, the agency announced the formal status review             
 under the ESA.  Basically, giving the public notice that we                   
 intended to make another determination this time to determine                 
 whether or not sea lions should be listed as endangered, rather               
 than threatened."  Ms. Mello indicated that the status review is              
 nearing completion.  She added, "The `94 survey results showed that           
 sea lions had declined another 21 percent west of Kenai since 1990.           
 (But) Southeast continues to be stable."                                      
                                                                               
 MS MELLO continued, "One of the things that has been shown through            
 our research is that the population from Cape Suckling to the east            
 appears to be reproductively isolated from the population to the              
 west.  The significance is that we can now show that there are                
 probably separate populations and therefore list them separately              
 under the ESA.  So there is a possibility of having one stock                 
 listed and the other one not listed.  That didn't exist before."              
 She then indicated that the recovery team last November recommended           
 that the sea lions be listed as endangered only west of Cape                  
 Suckling and east of Cape Suckling they remain on the threatened              
 list.  She said newspapers had described the recovery team's                  
 recommendations as closing fisheries but what the team recommended            
 was to evaluate the effects of commercial fishing and "if                     
 necessary, put in more time-area closures."                                   
                                                                               
 MS. MELLO concluded, "Where we are now, our intention is to come              
 out with a proposed rule in the next few months making a                      
 determination on how sea lions should be listed.  It would be a               
 proposed rule, it's not a final rule, it would be a request for               
 comments for 60 to 90 days.  We'd be coordinating with the state              
 and then within the year we would make a final determination.  We             
 are also committed to reviewing all our management actions to date.           
 We are also committed to reviewing all our management actions to              
 date.  One of the real problems with sea lions management has been            
 both the threatened listing and the closure.  The groundfish                  
 closures were done by emergency action rather than going through a            
 normal public comment period and I think the public has not really            
 had a full opportunity to review the management program.  That's              
 something we're committed to before making any changes."                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GARY DAVIS inquired about the fisheries moving                 
 towards shore.                                                                
                                                                               
 MS. MELLO indicated that the fishery, before the Magnuson Act, was            
 mostly foreign and operated outside of 12 miles.                              
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS asked, "And the fishery in Southeast really              
 hasn't changed and those populations are stable?"                             
                                                                               
 MS. MELLO pointed out, "Other than the shooting prohibition, all              
 the regulations have not affected Southeast at all."                          
                                                                               
 Number 217                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KIM ELTON asked, "What will be the effect on                   
 fisheries management if the sea lion is moved from the threatened             
 to the endangered list."                                                      
                                                                               
 MS. MELLO said, "There's no automatic effect.  Last year the Marine           
 Mammal Protection Act was amended and before that amendment, if sea           
 lions had been listed as endangered, we would not have been allowed           
 to permit incidental takes in fisheries."                                     
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ELTON asked, "Is there any coordination between with           
 what the NMFS is doing with their research program, their                     
 population studies, and what the University of British Columbia is            
 doing?"                                                                       
                                                                               
 MS. MELLO replied, "There is coordination.  The NMFS and the Alaska           
 Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G) receive a congressional                     
 appropriation for research," and indicated the agencies do work               
 together as a group.                                                          
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ELTON briefly told the committee about the North               
 Pacific Universities Marine Mammal Research Consortium.                       
                                                                               
 MS. MELLO described some of the research being performed by the               
 consortium.                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 259                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN compared the Stellar sea lion population decline           
 to the decline in king crab populations and asked if the king crab            
 could be listed as threatened.                                                
                                                                               
 MS. MELLO described the differences in the two animals and said,              
 "Large marine mammals of that type are unlikely to go through the             
 large boom and bust cycles that are familiar in shell fisheries.              
 It's just not expected for that kind of animal, especially not one            
 that's not being harvested."                                                  
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked about no-trawl zones.                                
                                                                               
 MS. MELLO said, "There are 10-mile no trawl zones around all the              
 rookeries west of the Kenai Peninsula, year round, which are 37               
 rookeries.  During the pollock A season, there are 20-mile zones              
 around six rookeries basically those right around Dutch Harbor and            
 two in Seguam Pass."  She added an explanation of why the 10-mile             
 zones were not enough from January 25 to "sometime in March" for              
 the pollock season.                                                           
                                                                               
 Number 310                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked if an analysis has been done comparing the           
 sea lion's environment at the time of the foreign fleet.                      
                                                                               
 MS. MELLO said, "We weren't really in the business of protecting              
 sea lions then.  We've only been in recent years."                            
                                                                               
 Number 344                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN asked what sea lions eat.                           
                                                                               
 MS. MELLO called them "opportunistic eaters" and described the sea            
 lion diet.                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked if they would eat the bycatch thrown over           
 on trawl fishers.                                                             
                                                                               
 MS. MELLO indicated she was unaware of any studies on that                    
 particular topic.                                                             
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked if sea lions are afraid of nearing                  
 fishing vessels.                                                              
                                                                               
 MS. MELLO said, "They are sort of peculiar animals in that they are           
 very, very easily disturbed by humans when they're on haulouts or             
 rookeries.  So if they catch sight or smell of people they will               
 just stampede into the water.  On the other hand, in Unalaska,                
 we've had an animal that's been biting people and jumping on the              
 docks.  So they can easily become accustomed to people in human               
 environments."                                                                
                                                                               
 Number 390                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked, "Is there any kind of traditional                  
 animosity that fishermen had towards Stellar sea lions?"                      
                                                                               
 MS. MELLO said, "There is a definite history of that.  There's also           
 a history of both the federal and state governments trying to find            
 a good use for sea lions or do anything with them because they were           
 competing with salmon fisheries."                                             
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN said when he was growing up in Kodiak one rarely           
 saw sea lions but now there are 30 or 40 living in the Kodiak boat            
 harbor.                                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 414                                                                    
                                                                               
 RICK LAUBER, Chairman, North Pacific Fisheries Management Council             
 (NPFMC or council), testified saying, "We make recommendations to             
 the Secretary of Commerce, NMFS, and much of the regulations that             
 Ms. Mello was talking about were touched upon by the council."  He            
 then described the birth and composition of the council.                      
                                                                               
 MR. LAUBER said, "The North Pacific Council has, under its                    
 jurisdiction, combined fisheries larger than all of the other seven           
 councils in value or in volume.  In fact, the two largest fishing             
 ports in the United States are in Alaska:  Dutch Harbor and Kodiak.           
 The Gulf of Alaska's are not as great certainly in tonnage but                
 they're very high value.  While we have jurisdiction over a number            
 of the species, we have assigned either a co-management, or                   
 assigned management to the state of Alaska.  The crab fisheries is            
 an example of that and many of the salmon fisheries, likewise.  We            
 have joint management or primary management with the state.                   
 Although the council could come up with a management plan.  The               
 reason for the Act was pretty obvious.  I'm sure many of you can              
 remember back in the days when Alaska, off its coast had nothing              
 but foreign caught and foreign processed seafood.  There were many            
 countries fishing off of Alaska; Japan, Korea, Russia, Poland,                
 others.  Ninety-nine percent of the fish prior to 1976 was caught             
 and processed by foreign factory ships or mother ship operations.             
 As such, there was very little benefit to Alaska.  In addition to             
 that, these fisheries were not managed by anyone."                            
                                                                               
 MR. LAUBER continued, "So in late 1976 when the North Pacific                 
 Fishery Management Council went in existence, its primary                     
 responsibility was the permitting of foreign processing and foreign           
 catching boats because, as I said, about 99 percent of the offshore           
 catch was taken by foreigners.  It wasn't long after that (and)               
 probably due to a loophole in the law, the situation arose as we              
 refer to as a joint venture:  A sale to an American fisherman with            
 a foreign factory ship.  And these became very popular.  It was the           
 first time we entered into any type of Americanization.  Probably,            
 that slowed down the total Americanization of the fisheries but in            
 any case, it did provide a market for American fishermen.  That               
 went on for a number of years."                                               
                                                                               
 Number 530                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. LAUBER said, "The real growth in the Americanization came                 
 through factory trawlers.  These are vessels that both catch and              
 process the fish they catch.  This fleet, largely based out of                
 Seattle, grew at far beyond anyone's imagination from the five                
 years of 1985 to 1990.  Seventy factory ships or mother ships,                
 entered the fishery.  So many entered the fishery that they would             
 have been able to totally catch and process in the jurisdiction two           
 or three times, maybe more.  By this time, the shorebased industry            
 had started.  There were a number of plants in the Gulf of Alaska             
 and some large plants in Dutch Harbor that started.  They soon                
 found themselves in a situation, that they were going to be                   
 preempted by the offshore fleet.  So along came a proposal in the             
 NPFMC to provide an allocation for the offshore fleet and the                 
 onshore fleet.  It resulted in a plan for 35 percent of the                   
 fisheries in the Bering Sea to be harvested by fishermen who                  
 deliver to onshore processors.  And the balance went to the factory           
 trawlers and the mothership operations.  At the same time, coming             
 right off the top, the council created the Community Development              
 Quotas (CDQs) where they give seven and a half percent of the                 
 pollock in the Bering Sea to coastal communities in western Alaska            
 and the Aleutian Islands."  He added, "The take during the four               
 year life of that plan will probably be about $60 million to those            
 coastal communities.  This was part of the onshore-offshore                   
 allocation.  And it expires, as does the CDQ portion of it, at the            
 end of this year.  So the council's in the process of renewing or             
 rolling over that inshore-offshore allocation.  It has some                   
 opposition of course.  The offshore fleet would like to have it all           
 but I think that we'll probably prevail."                                     
                                                                               
 Number 620                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. LAUBER highlighted the council's new observer program,                    
 Individual Fishing Quota (IFQ) program and bycatch caps.                      
                                                                               
 TAPE 95-6, SIDE B                                                             
 Number 000                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. LAUBER said regarding discards, "We are going to do something             
 about it.  We have several plans in the works to reward people who            
 are clean fishermen.  This is called a harvest priority where, if             
 you operate a clean fishery, you would be rewarded by either being            
 able to fish longer, or starting sooner or something of that                  
 nature.  All of these are difficult because you have to have a very           
 good reporting system of actually what's taken, what's harvested.             
 But we are working on that."  He then talked about comprehensive              
 rationalization for all groundfish and crab saying, "We are                   
 currently looking at a vessel licensing system which would take               
 over from our vessel moratorium.  A vessel licensing system differs           
 from the IFQ system and would be similar to what's in place in the            
 state of Alaska for salmon.  We have a vessel licensing system                
 there.  It does not control the number of fish that are taken, but            
 it controls the number of vessels that can engage in that fishery.            
 He then provided another considered system for limiting access to             
 the groundfish and crab fisheries.                                            
                                                                               
 Number 124                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked if the state has given up its right to              
 manage halibut within state waters 100 percent of the total                   
 allowable catch (TAC) has been allocated through IFQs.                        
                                                                               
 MR. LAUBER said, "The question under discussion as to in-state                
 jurisdiction - I would defer to the state on that issue.  They are            
 working on it," and added, "On the halibut charter boat issue, the            
 council, about a year and a half ago, there was a proposal made by            
 someone that wanted to put the halibut charter boats under council            
 jurisdiction.  We have met a number of times on this.  I appointed            
 a committee composed largely of charter boat people.  Some                    
 commercial fishermen and largely charter boat people.  I can't tell           
 you the feeling of all council members, but I understand that what            
 a lot of the people feel is that if there is a problem, it is not             
 statewide.  There are some areas of the state where it would be               
 ludicrous for us to propose any type of management regime other               
 than maybe registration or something of that sort on charter boats;           
 there aren't many of them.  Other places, there is some crowding,             
 localized depletion and things of that nature that we may need to             
 take a look at.  But we have asked for a legal opinion from the               
 National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) general                  
 counsel as to what the counsel can and cannot do, which will be due           
 in April at our meeting and we served notice on the charter boat              
 people that we will not touch this or bring it up at the soonest,             
 the December meeting.  There's been no action taken.  And on the              
 charter boat people, we have again, like Alaskans, they run the               
 gamut from those that feel there should be some regulation and                
 moratorium or something of that sort to those that are incensed               
 that anyone would even consider the possibility, anyone would think           
 of regulating them in any way."                                               
                                                                               
 Number 212                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN reiterated that there may be a problem with the           
 federal government allocating all halibut, even that within Prince            
 William Sound and Cook Inlet.  He said, "Those two areas                      
 essentially could have a state-managed fishery, but again we have             
 the problem that 100 percent of the allocation has been given to              
 the federal fishery."                                                         
                                                                               
 MR. LAUBER said, "Halibut falls under a different category because            
 it is controlled by a treaty between the United States and Canada.            
 And that treaty covers both inside and outside waters.  They set              
 various quotas for areas...and they count inshore catches inside of           
 three miles.  Halibut is considered to be a...it's not a highly               
 migratory species but it all comes out of a common stock.  So                 
 therefore they do set these quotas whether they are taken inshore             
 or offshore.  And at the current time, the halibut commission does            
 take into account the halibut charter boat fleet's catch.  After              
 they take out the sports catch and the halibut charter boat catch,            
 the incidental catch by trawler and the number that's left over is            
 the number that's left for the commercial fisheries.                          
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN continued, "Potentially, the state of Alaska              
 could have a state regulated commercial fishery for halibut in                
 Prince William Sound and Cook Inlet because that's not included in            
 the Magnuson Act area but legally, I think it could be argued that            
 we can't do that because all of the fish are already allocated out            
 in the federal programs."                                                     
                                                                               
 MR. LAUBER said, "I could be mistaken with this, but I think with             
 the allocation of fish, that's not council.  The NPFMC does not               
 have anything to do with the allocation of halibut.  That's                   
 allocated by the International Halibut Commission.  The treaty                
 between Canada and the United States and that takes precedence over           
 state law and we can do certain things to regulate the inshore                
 catch.  For instance, the Board of Fish might be able to limit the            
 daily bag limit of halibut.  There's a number of things the state             
 can do and there's a number of things that the NPFMC can do that              
 would affect inshore"                                                         
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN clarified, "But that is only on sport fish                 
 because the commercial fishing of halibut is totally regulated by             
 the International Halibut Commission."                                        
                                                                               
 MR. LAUBER disagreed, "They set the amount of fish that's                     
 available.  I don't know what more regulation you can have than the           
 regulation of passing out quota shares, parceling out the halibut             
 to individual fishermen and that was done by the NPFMC."                      
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN said, "The state of Alaska is never going to               
 have a commercial halibut opening of its own because it's all                 
 controlled by the International Halibut Commission."                          
                                                                               
 MR. LAUBER agreed saying, "I believe that's correct.  The council             
 has no management plan for halibut.  This is done by the                      
 International Halibut Commission."                                            
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS said, "You're looking for the legal question             
 as to whether you can legally get into that area.  And the legal              
 question is you would have to some sort of subcontract role with              
 the International Halibut Commission?"                                        
                                                                               
 MR. LAUBER said, "My understanding, oversimplification, but their             
 responsibility is to determine the amount of halibut available and            
 to set the amount of fish to be taken and set the amount of fish              
 that would be taken in their individual regulatory areas," and he             
 indicated that the halibut commission was the one who used to set             
 the opening dates of the halibut fisheries.  He added, "But when it           
 comes to regulating the fishery as to who can fish and that type of           
 thing, that's up to the council."                                             
                                                                               
 Number 329                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked, "What steps are being taken specifically           
 to reduce the bycatch of the king salmon," regarding the depleted             
 king salmon populations in his Mat-Su.                                        
                                                                               
 MR. LAUBER said, "We don't know as much about it as we'd would like           
 to know, but I can tell you what I do know.  That we have felt that           
 the bycatch rate of salmon, the two areas with the biggest problem            
 are chum salmon and king salmon.  But there are other forms taken.            
 It's too high and we have done a number of things.  Some have been            
 more successful than others.  One of the frustrations we have found           
 is:  In Alaska, the Commissioner of Fish and Game is given                    
 substantial amounts of authority to do emergency closures and                 
 openings and restrict areas and so forth by emergency order.  The             
 feds don't operate that way.  We attempted to give the director of            
 the NMFS what we call hot spot authority when the observers were              
 finding that a particular fishery was running into bycatch of                 
 salmon, to shut that fishery down.  Well, the legal eagles of the             
 federal government told us, `You can't do that, you have to go                
 through a hearing process and have to go out for public process and           
 so forth.'  Talk about closing the barn door after the horse is               
 gone.  In fact, the ludicrous part was, they said the only thing we           
 could do was build a plan based upon the previous year's                      
 experience."                                                                  
                                                                               
 MR. LAUBER continued, "The other thing that has been a problem for            
 us is that you can have a relatively high bycatch of another                  
 species whether it be salmon or other and the crew of the vessel              
 doesn't know it.  If you're pulling up a net with hundreds of tons            
 of fish in it, a relatively few salmon in that may not be noticed             
 and they may not be aware of it until after they get the observer             
 report and so forth.  So it's not an instantaneous thing."   He               
 said, "So there's a lot of frustration in it.  We need timely                 
 information to get those people out of those areas."                          
                                                                               
 MR. LAUBER added, "The best we've done is we have taken areas that            
 are extremely high, for instance in a very high bycatch area and              
 set cap on the number of fish that can be taken.  And then put the            
 observers aboard every vessel and when that number of fish is                 
 reached, it just shuts that number down and everybody has to move             
 out of it."  He indicated that it was highly unlikely that the                
 trawl fishery was "a major cause" of the Deshka River king salmon             
 problem.  He said, "It is sometimes easy to look at a political               
 solution or a popular solution.  For instance, blaming foreign                
 fisheries when we had them, and they did intercept some, but the              
 thing it caused us to do sometimes was ignore other causes that               
 probably were more significant, in that case the foreign fishing.             
 I'm not minimizing the fact that they contributed to the decline in           
 some areas, but I suspect that there are a lot of other reasons               
 that were the major cause for our decline in salmon runs, say in              
 the '70s.  We need to not just point our finger at the offshore               
 trawlers (but) they deserve their share of the blame."                        
                                                                               
 Number 440                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN asked about high seas drift net fishing.             
                                                                               
 MR. LAUBER confirmed that the Anadromous Fish Commission Treaty has           
 banned all high seas salmon fishing.  "Between that and the drift             
 net voluntary ban in the United Nations, there hasn't been high               
 seas drift net fishing targeting on salmon for a number of years."            
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked if consideration was given to leasing IFQs           
 rather than giving away the resource.                                         
                                                                               
 MR. LAUBER indicated that proposals to auction and to lease were              
 considered but were declined by the council.                                  
                                                                               
 Number 545                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ELTON asked, "Under the IFQ system as proposed,                
 there's a certain number of pounds that were allocated, divided up            
 amongst the fleet.  In management of the bioresource, it seems that           
 you are giving away one of your strongest management tools is to              
 reduce the harvest from year to year if in fact your biomass is               
 going down."                                                                  
                                                                               
 MR. LAUBER clarified, "It's computed based upon the pounds of                 
 halibut and black cod that you caught and delivered, but once the             
 number is determined...once that number is set, you merely take the           
 number of shares and divide it into whatever the halibut commission           
 says is available for that area that you're entitled to fish in.              
                                                                               
 ADJOURNMENT                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN thanked his guests and adjourned the meeting at            
 6:25 p.m.                                                                     
                                                                               
                                                                               

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